I got my Secret Weapon Miniatures bases in, they are looking Slick!
The long awaited final update to the Playtest PDF is here. Over the past 19 months this project has grown into a living beast. Going from a simple mini-dex just used to enhance and supplement a few things in the Codex Chaos Marines; it is now a complex full blown fandex drawing very little from the Codex Chaos Marines.
I really do value and appreciate all the feedback and support that the readership of Galaxy in Flames have provided along the way.
As I've stated many times this is a playtest version of the Fandex. This means that it is not the finished product. (Please keep this in mind!)
In order to finalize the project, I need the help of the 40k community.
I would ask for any of you willing to take the Soul Reapers Fandex for a spin on the tabletop and playtest it yourself taking notes on improvements, comments and constructive criticism. So I can use the feedback to create the final release and put the project to rest. This is by far the most important version of the Fandex yet as I am entering the final shakedown of the Soul Reapers.
The creative side of things are done for the rules; any changes that come along now will be tweaks made from your playtesting feedback. So I am for the most part moving into the fleshing out the background phase for the Soul Reapers.
You may send your feedback to me directly at galaxynflamesblog(at)gmail(.com) or put them in the comments section of this post.
updated the PDF 11PM PST 11/17/10
-The Onslaught Dreadnought's table has 2-4 listed as its Sane result; it does not indicate what happens on a roll of 5.
ReplyDelete-Night Fighting is 2d6x3", not 3d6 as referenced in the Warp Wraith entry.
-Krug's Daemon Scythe should cause Instant Death on a roll of 4+. There's no reason to try and dodge Eternal Warrior, it's not all that common a USR. The fact that he can cut a Trygon in half with one swing is probably good enough.
-Xusia's staff should probably read "...Is a two-handed Force Weapon that..." rather than "...Can be used as a..." to avoid confusion. Likewise, he probably shouldn't have two separate rolls to negate a psychic power (staff, armor).
-Aura of Malevolence should be a Morale test, not a Leadership test. Anything that causes a unit to fall back is a Morale test.
-Eris is a girl's name. It's like naming your chaos lord Cindy, Harbinger of the Apocalypse.
-Apostles should probably just have the usual "pick any two" powers rather than a goofy points list. They got rid of that for a reason. Just add 30pts to their cost and call it good.
-Vortex of Chaos is pretty ridiculous. AP2, ignores cover, no to-hit roll, etc? It's fairly short-ranged, but it's basically a better version of Avenger, which is already a good power.
-Storm of Chaos should probably note that it automatically hits the target.
-Possession presumably does not allow invulnerable saves (How does a forcefield protect you from being eaten from the inside?) and thus wants "No saves of any kind" language.
-Chains of Torment should read "...Targets a non-vehicle unit..." rather than "...Any non-vehicle unit."
-Don't try and create a hybrid list that draws things from the CSM book and also uses its own stuff. If something is available, reprint it in this codex.
-Harbingers of Malice are a bit too good; they give more USRs than a BA Priest, have two wounds, get their wargear cheaper, and have extra options.
-Praetorian Centurions get A3 naturally? That's an awful lot when you consider they get Pistol+CCW as well- it's more than a lot of HQs get, even. Add in the fact that they're cheaper than most special weapon teams and get full access (3x meltagun for 135? sure!), and they start looking awfully good.
-Cataphracts are way too cheap. Rending ultra-bolters in an army full of icons that can also reroll 1s to wound and can freely mix in heavy weapons and special CCWs? Yeah, that shit is off the chain.
-Legionary Squads can get special weapons at 5man and heavies at only 8; that is a huge advantage over normal Marines, since they're saving 20% points on every troop squad they take.
-The Onslaught Dreadnought entry references a "Heavy Plasma Gun." Presumably this means a Plasma Cannon? The entry should also be a little more specific about how many of the Bolters can be upgraded to other choices, as it's somewhat unclear if you can upgrade two of them to the same weapon, etc.
-Icon of Perpetual War is really, really good. I'm not sure if it's too good, but it's something you'd take for basically every single squad ever.
All in all, it looks like the book is trying to cram in a bit too much unique stuff at once- don't be afraid to use more basic options, especially in a fandex where people are unlikely to want to play against a million crazy custom rules and custom units.
The list is, in a lot of ways, strictly better than the CSM list, but that's not saying much; on the other hand, it's also just better than the SM list in several ways, which is a bit worrisome. I'd have to spend a lot more time studying it to say for sure, but I think the overall power level is a bit too high; while it might be fine as a GW publication, convincing your opponent to play against it is going to be a struggle, especially with stuff like AP2-ignore-invuln TLBolters and psychic powers that ignore both regular and cover saves.
I appreciate the honest and detailed feedback.
ReplyDeleteThere were a number of misprints due to poor copy and pasting on my part from multiple docs. I apologize for that.
1) obviously a misprint, I have corrected it.
2) another misprint now corrected.
3) I'll consider changing that, everyone so far has liked the uniqueness of the rule.
4)Fair enough, it now reads two handed force weapon
5)fixed
6)Well then he has a chicks name.
7)I considered that, but was sticking to the way that felt natural currently, I'll probably amend it.
8)Should read AP3, fixed.
9)but it doesn't
10)clarified
11)Hybrid is to lessen the violations of GW's IP. It ain't gonna change.
12) Should have 1 wound, fixed.
13)No he has 2 attacks and +1 Int, bad cut and paste.
14)I'll re-look at them, with the special ammo they are 43 points each. Which is pretty hefty for a one wound model.
15)Well I ain't gonna do the ten man shackle. It's lame the GW have gone that route in the first place.
16)Plasma cannon, and only one of each type TL bolter upgrade can be taken.
17)Horribly misprinted, and fixed. It only effects rolls in the assault phase.
Part of the reason it looks like there is a lot crammed in there is because there is. This is the most dramatic of all the versions of the list. It added 4 new/replacement units.
I get what you are saying and they are valid concerns. I will consider everything you have posted moving forward.
Thanks again,
Jim
I didn't see the special ammo costing extra, fair enough; I think at 43 they're a lot more fair, since you're just looking at a PW+TLBolter at that point.
ReplyDeleteWith doing eight men required for HW, you're just creating an "eight man shackle" instead. They already have a good balance against SM, given that they get BP+CCW and have Stubborn instead of ATSKNF, it seems like kind of an odd choice given that CSM have historically been 5/10 splits. (I'm fine with letting them take a special at five, but giving them the heavy early feels unnecessary.)
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the book- CSM are pretty bland and uninteresting as it stands, so an "improved" book is a very nice thing to see, I just think you should take a page from the 5E codices in some cases. I tend to err on the side of caution with fan works so that you're more likely to get to use them, but obviously the specifics of it are going to be something you have to hammer out yourself.
With regard to IP: you are going to be violating about ten kinds of IP by making this, no two ways about it. I understand the concern with not blatantly trampling GW's products, but would consider listing the units that are available to this list in their respective FOC sections, by name if not by full entry? It's extremely awkward to have to flip back and forth to reference what you're allowed to take and what replaces what when making a list, that is one way that 5E books are a major improvement over earlier ones.
Thanks again for the feedback!
ReplyDeleteI figured that you might have missed the 10 point upgrade for the ammo.
Yeah, the eight man shackle is odd but a compromise with the guys in the club. They thought that the squads should just be able to take the HW or second SW from the 5 man get go. Their think is that these guys are Chaos Marines and structure themselves as they see fit.
Since this is the final shakedown I will do just that. I will troll back through all the ideas used on the 5th ed books and find a workaround.
On the IP thing, my copy of the fandex has everything listed in it. I have trepidation at putting the missing units in entirely just because GW can be pendant at times. I will try sneaking the names in their FOC in the final version.
Thanks again for taking the time to trudge through the fandex, I really appreciate the input.
Jim